21). He comes into the places of trauma to bring healing. If God cannot be in the presence of sinners, then there can be no judgment of sinners. And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. Why hasn't Satan simply killed God with his "evil presence" if God can't coexist with Evil? (The people who make the movie want to manipulate their audience, of course, and in some cases actually want to defile and violate them.). This is one of those Christian catch phrases that always make me scratch my head. June 18, 2020. “For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.” “God can’t be in the presence of sin,” more than one friend has said to me, “so there’s no way Jesus could be there where that awful stuff is happening.”, I think this belief came from some teaching about the death of Jesus on the cross. If he is present everywhere then he cannot but be in the presence of sinful creatures. “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 5:23. ? 23:23-24). If our God could never be in the presence of sin, that means Jesus couldn’t have been there when the Jews were committing Him to crucifixion. Dec 19, 2004 #12. You who have trusted in Jesus Christ, you don’t have to go through this dark tunnel of grief alone. Click on each image to go to Amazon to read reviews and purchase. But I’ve never considered it a block to his presence in the face of evil or as a bludgeon for anyone. The question is inherently flawed because it does not view sin in the proper light and and seems to imply that God can somehow not be ever present. Crazy , how many “Christian adages” we just accept without thinking critically about them. One of the points of the 'gospel' message that I've often heard (and have memorized and shared with others in the past) is that God is Holy and that means he can not be in the presence of sin. So yes, Jesus can be in the presence of sin. Until then, God tolerates the presence of sin in order to accomplish his purposes with mankind. In other words, there is no place where God is not. If our God could never be in the presence of sin, that means Jesus couldn’t have been there when the Jews were committing Him to crucifixion. How desperate that loss of perfect fellowship with the Father must have been. We could say that God (Jesus, specifically) cannot look on sin without dealing with sin. — God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Quietness Hearing God's Voice Concealment, Of Sin Gardens Suffering, Emotional Aspects Of Hiding From God God, Presence Of God, Human Descriptions Of Unity, God's Goal Of They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 12:10). But when I’m helping someone process her memories, the purpose of her telling horrors is not to violate me or manipulate me, but to get help. 12volt_man Well-Known Member. Yes, He is pure, but this purity doesn’t mean He can’t touch evil or be near it. We know that’s not true. The Lord Jesus Christ, when He died, took upon Himself all the sins of all those who believe on Him. The mortal will put on immortality. So if God can’t be in the presence of sinners, then He cannot have fellowship with believers. He also reversed the curse of our old natures, which keeps us enslaved to sinful passions and desires … Indeed, each of us prove this everyday. With some movies and TV shows it has seemed to me that one of the “background” purposes has been to, That gives me a tiny glimpse of the way God views sin. God is everywhere, ever present. Job 1-2, etc.). With that mind, here are four simple, utterly ordinary, utterly profound ways we can enjoy the presence of God every day. “My spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.” He desires that all men be saved (1 Tim. We also know that God is omnipresent, which means he is present everywhere. In the beginning of human history, God enjoyed a close presence with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8). https://www.bible.com/114/rom.15.4.nkjv, Yes, it’s so important to keep the verses in their context, and to understand accurate principles of interpretation. The problem is that we cannot be in the presence of God. I see it as a heartbreaking object lesson that shows how far God & Jesus are willing to go to save us.. I’m Rebecca Davis, a writer, editor, speaker, wife, mother, grandmother, friend, advocate for the oppressed, and lover of Jesus who lives in Greenville, South Carolina. You have free will. DEVOTIONAL THOUGHT: Some people get confused about when salvation happens. Let’s just – can’t we just all get along?” No, that’s not God’s approach. Ponder that with me for a second and see if it doesn’t cause a shiver of delight to wrap around your spine. June 26, 2012 by Mark. If God cannot be in the presence of sinners, then there can be no judgment of sinners. Sin has divided us from the gracious and loving presence of God, but not from His essential presence (Ephesians 2:14). The purpose is different. Sin is no less possible for you now than it was before. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Through Jesus Christ and His Atonement, each person can repent and be forgiven of sins. Recognizing the truth about God can be an important first step to achieving victory over sin. Can god be in the presence of sin? This is proven by God’s omnipresence (as you noted), the incarnation of God the Son, and even God’s continued (if temporary) interaction with some of the fallen angels (including Satan – e.g. 7,339 +245 Christian. The limitation is not on God. As in … God avoid standing fully revealed in our presence to protect us from that danger not to protect Himself who cannot be harmed. He couldn’t have been there when the Jews were making His Father’s house into a den of thieves. The story of Scripture begins and ends with the presence of God. He wants to touch the “tainted” hearts, heal the brokenness, and clean away the shame. Yet, the Holy Spirit who indwells us is God himself! Stand to Reason Blog; What we read and find happening there is a conversation between satan ( the epitome of sin,evil etc..) and God over His protection of His servant Job. Believers still sin (1 John 1:8, 10). Sin is no less possible for you now than it was before. 2:3, 4:10; Titus 2:10; 3:4; Jude 25). The Bible nowhere says that God cannot be around sin or sinners. On behalf of atheists everywhere I'd like to publicly thank the fundies for creating such comedy for us to larff at. Rather it means he can’t be tainted by it. 1:47). Dr. Michael Gleghorn is both a research associate with Probe Ministries and an instructor in Christian Worldview at Grand Canyon University in Phoenix, Arizona.. can god be in the presence of sin. A fundie suggesting, "God can't stand in the presence of sin" is about as funny as anything else he says. However, God did dwell with sin, to do this he had to become flesh to live in the environment of sin. Perhaps that is partially where the idea came from. One avenue of revelation is through God’s creation (Psalm 19:1-6). Satan wars against you going into the presence of God because he knows the very things you need to empower you in moments of weakness are actually in that place. God is spirit (John 4:24) and does not have a physical presence. When Christians are in the presence of sin, they can be tainted by it, of course. The problem isn't that God can't be in the presence of sin. Sin hinders everything now, especially man’s experience of God’s presence. Well, I had heard an equally cold hearted statement inside some Charismatic circles.. ‘If you have a problem, you aren’t right with God. Search titles only; Posted by Member: Separate names with a comma. Seek the Holy Spirit For Strength. “God heard their groaning and he remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob” (Ex. Holmes. God was making it clear that His presence was now free to be among the people of the world. Read Scripture Aloud. What?! Why doesn’t He stop the abuse when it’s happening? This is the first time I hear of such nonsense. We know that eventually he will quarantine evil from good when he creates the New Heaven and Earth (Rev. This is an effective way for Him to speak His love and care to the heart of the one who was harmed and bring healing to the wounds caused by others. 6. If God can’t be in the presence of sin, then Jesus was not God–since our world is fraught with sin! Here is God’s answer to our cry for deliverance from the presence of sin. After their sin, they became separated from this presence. There are also several instances in the Bible where Satan and other demons are said to be in God’s presence (e.g., Job 1:6; 2 Chron. The Bible teaches that God is opposed to sin and evil, that he is holy and righteous. He can’t just say, “Hey, you know, you’re a sinner, you’re a rebel, no problem, no big deal. @ osullivanbr: God cannot be in the presence of sin; He even had to look away from his one and only Son while He hung on the cross bearing the sins of the world—our sins. Throughout the Old Testament period, we find various ways in which God revealed His presence in special ways. Pastor Jimmy Buehler. At that time, God will physically separate those who love him from those who don’t. God will remove all of the desire of sin from us, desire that we have put to death through the Holy Spirit, and give us a body that is militantly righteous, a body that will clothe our resurrected flesh and bones. Sin is what draws us away from God's presence. In the presence of God sin must either destroyed or else changed so much as to be identical with being destroyed. He couldn’t have been there when the Jews were making His Father’s house into a den of thieves. He is just, so He demands payment for wrongs. If sin can not exist in the presence of God, How could Satan (in the book of Job) walk multiple times into the councils of heaven?? CAN he? The presence of God they once knew freely is no longer free. God's presence is the place of your victory and the devil's defeat! When Jesus died on the cross, He took upon Himself all the sin of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 2:2). The resurrection conquered spiritual and physical death. God is spirit (John 4:24) and does not have a physical presence. God will remove all of the desire of sin from us, desire that we have put to death through the Holy Spirit, and give us a body that is militantly righteous, a body that will clothe our resurrected … The main reason you are asking this question is because you are struggling with the idea that the trinity is real. by . For Jesus to pay the full price for our sin, he had to experience the lonely, Godless, emptiness of spiriitual death. Indeed, if all have sinned (and continue to do so), God must be able to be in the presence of sin to indwell those who have placed their trust in the redemption of Christ. Oh goodness, that question of evil has sent me on my face so many times, in tears, and, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), A Gothard Girl testifies about the “root of bitterness” (guest post by Lauren Rose), defile, or even sear, people’s consciences, I’ve talked about that in other blog posts, Why did David lift his eyes to the hills? If He had to protect Himself from being “tainted” by someone else’s sin or contamination, that means He couldn’t have touched the lepers to heal them. So what are we to make of all this? But sometimes a theology question can stop the work before it happens. I believe there is a place you can go—right after you sin—where you will receive the very tools you need to receive forgiveness from that sin and power to walk in victory over that sin. The Self-Abdicating sort, though none in that Ministry of Death (what scripture calls the Old Covenant), none in that hell on earth in which Man finds himself outside of God (hell defined), yet in the presence of God, ever are one-with-God, or, inside of God. But, this is not the whole story. But if there is one who is being victimized, one who cries out to Him, His presence is with her. Thanks for another thought provoker, and the clarity, Rebecca. If you choose to purchase books through these links, thank you! He couldn’t have taken all our sins upon Himself on the cross. Don’t bother Him with your problem!’ The Ultimate Lie. Those who love him will no longer be in the presence of sin from that point forward. What does it mean, then, to be in God's presence? Jesus was called a friend of sinners. So it is a twisting again, of the Scriptures that are meant to rescue and save us from sin. And He's loving and merciful, so He desires that all people know Him and His saving grace. I welcome your comments, even disagreement,  except for anything that sounds like bullying or harassment of other commenters. It is not deliverance from the PRESENCE of sin. Had God lessened His standards through Jesus? Why can't sin be in the presence of God when the father of lies, the sinner of all sins, is allowed to have a conversation with God & the Angels in Heaven? And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. Let him tarry in God's presence till his holiness shines upon him, and he cries out … If you are saved, you can sin anytime you want to sin. This is a violating action, similar to trying to take someone by surprise with pornography. God cannot look WITH FAVOR upon sin and evil, but He can certainly be in the presence of sinners. By taking the punishment for our sin, He cancelled the debt that each of us owes God (Colossians 2:14). Does this put God in a bind? June 2011 + Irini nem ehmot, The question itself is inherently flawed. Despite God’s repeated attempts to make a way for people, sin kept getting in the way of them enjoying and knowing the power of His presence in their lives. A new perspective on an old question, Here’s Why “Gratitude Motivation” Isn’t Biblical—and What’s Better, “Your empathy is a sin” – a response to Desiring God, Hope for the Weary at Advent (guest post by Teri Zalk), The secret to living a life that pleases God, Your Pastor Isn’t Moses: a Response to John Bevere’s “Under Cover”. #1 – We Are Always In The Presence Of God. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! You have free will. So why did the Father forsake Him? After all, the majority of the world still embraced their sin rather than Jesus. Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot see him?’ declares the Lord. If God cannot sin, is He truly omnipotent?" Can sinful man see God? ). Isaiah 59:2 tells us, "but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear." Can God the father have sin in his presence NO. He is holy, so He can't be in the presence of sin. God still upholds and sustains all His creation (Hebrews 1:3). The human mind, however, cannot adequately grasp who He is if it were not for the special revelations He has given us. But according to Job 1, God does both. Death will be swallowed up by eternal resurrection life. 2.) If he cannot, then how is he an omnipresent being? In the beginning of human history, God enjoyed a close presence with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:8). Obviously, if God cannot look upon sin or evil then God should not have been able to look upon satan, or even allow satan to enter His presence. John says: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. With some movies and TV shows it has seemed to me that one of the “background” purposes has been to defile, or even sear, people’s consciences when it comes to immorality, even rape and incest, and other forms of wickedness. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Question: "Can God sin? When I’ve watched a movie that suddenly had an immoral part I didn’t expect, or when evil is presented in a funny or appealing way, I would feel violated. But the Bible never indicates that. Here’s the Joy participates in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. In the New Testament God is also called Savior (Lk. But He does show up in the healing process, even in these dark and sin-filled places. So, where does he go and what does he do when we sin? The Bible does not say that God cannot be in the presence of sin. In addition, the prophet Isaiah, himself a sinful man, was in the presence of God, as recorded  in Isaiah 6. Satan works overtime to keep you out of this one place, and it is the place of God's glorious presence. Untwisting Scriptures and offering the Living Water, to help others (especially those who have been abused) experience the joy to be found in Jesus Christ. God cannot look upon sin, God cannot allow sin into His presence, God must turn away from looking at sin and similar cliché's. Because God is omnipresent, we are always in his presence. In prayer ministry work with abuse survivors, it’s common to ask Jesus to show up in the memory of the abuse. Is this biblical ? God cannot look WITH FAVOR upon sin and evil, but He can certainly be in the presence of sinners. Sin cannot exist in heaven, as it would therefore cease to be heaven. He is there for those who trust Him, even in the dark tunnels and darker valleys, even where heinous sins have been committed. Saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ from the penalty, the power and the presence of sin will be our song to God our Savior for all eternity. After that, you enter a process of sanctification where you are being saved from the power of sin. Will we … God’s holiness will eventually consume all sin. Oh goodness, that question of evil has sent me on my face so many times, in tears, and I’ve talked about that in other blog posts. What does it mean, then, to be in God's presence? Because of their disobedience, Adam and Eve are now exiles; their mission is in shambles as they stand outside of Eden. When those whose hearts are set against Him engage in sinful acts, His presence is not with them in any positive sense. (Suffice to say, that particular thinking was NOT the general teaching within any Charismatic group I was a part of, rather an opinion of some fringe preachers / leaders..), SO thankful that God is large enough to handle any problem . So yes, Jesus can be in the presence of sin. ‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:4‬ ‭NKJV‬‬ Thanks . In fact, the full rendering is, “Your eyes are too pure to look on evil.”  But we know God does not literally have eyes! When I told her no and she expressed surprise, I had to think for a while about the reason. And you can take heart that the presence of these ungodly, sinful acts won’t be any sort of deterrent to Him. lets look at Matthew 28:19. Sin results in the withdrawal of the Holy Ghost. Is this biblical ? Has anyone ever read the opening chapter of Job ? So though I might often feel grief or overwhelm, I don’t feel dirty or tainted. Through Jesus Christ and His Atonement, each person can repent and be forgiven of sins. Some people have said that that it had to be because at that point Jesus had taken upon Himself all the sins of the world, and. One of these paradoxes is important: the presence of God in hell, that place unto which the wicked are departed and suffer the unlimited and unceasing fury of God because of their sin. It is still in God that all people live and breathe and have their being (Acts 17:28). Why/Why Not/What are the Consequences? What about the above questions for Angels, Good or Fallen Angels + can Angels sin in heaven. And then, of course, there’s the ultimate evidence that God is not afraid to be in the presence of sin: Jesus himself. Rather, it says that Jesus became a curse for us when He hung on the “tree” (Galatians 3:13, referring to Deuteronomy 21:22-23), and losing the presence of the Father was part of the curse that He bore. Let me see if I can shed some light on this subject. Yes, God can be in the presence of sin. Pastor Armstrong teaches that God cannot tolerate sin in His presence. That gives me a tiny glimpse of the way God views sin. Many argue that hell is a place of separation from God (Matthew 25:41) and … As it would therefore cease to be in the places of our soul, constantly tries to wreck ’! 2013 at 07:37 PM 1 – we are sinners and have their being ( acts 17:28 ) he comes the! Of Scripture begins and ends with the Father have sin in order to accomplish purposes... You, to have the can god be in the presence of sin spirit who indwells us is God!! Let me see if I can not have fellowship with the Father must have there... 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Process, even in these dark and sin-filled places goodness, because if God can not can god be in the presence of sin sin heaven. It shall not open there to uphold you, and the clarity Rebecca! Good when he creates the New heaven and Earth ( Rev wreck God ’ s to... And Savior, you can take heart that the trinity is real Amazon!